| Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system | |
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+3Sirius_Alpha Edasich Lazarus 7 posters |
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 4th March 2010, 6:56 pm | |
| I'm somewhat surprised this one hasn't been posted here yet...
Last edited by Lazarus on 13th May 2010, 8:43 am; edited 2 times in total | |
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 4:18 am | |
| Always Pulkovo observers once in 2004 inferred again the existence of a substellar object at 61 Cygni A. Period 6.9 years (I think), 14 Jupiter masses and e=0.4. I don't know if trustworthy but thanks for the information | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 1:45 pm | |
| - Lazarus wrote:
- I'm somewhat surprised this one hasn't been posted here yet...
Maybe this is the proposed planet "outtathere." (quick explanation: Ups And's planets got the unofficial names of Dinky, Twopiter, and Fourpiter, with a proposed ejected planet "outtathere" to explain d's eccentricity) _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 1:50 pm | |
| - Sirius_Alpha wrote:
- (quick explanation: Ups And's planets got the unofficial names of Dinky, Twopiter, and Fourpiter, with a proposed ejected planet "outtathere" to explain d's eccentricity)
Don't know about anyone else here, but I never liked those names... | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 1:52 pm | |
| Eh, I thought they were cute but unnecessary. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 3:43 pm | |
| I would have such cool names for those planets, but let's not turn offtopic | |
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 4:31 pm | |
| Can't help but wonder if the delay in the astrometric analysis of Upsilon Andromedae is due to trying to characterise the fourth planet... | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 5th March 2010, 5:13 pm | |
| That would make sense. Perhaps d isn't actually inclined 30° to the rest of the system after all. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Stalker Jovian
Number of posts : 540 Age : 33 Location : Paris, France Registration date : 2008-06-16
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 3:07 pm | |
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 4:22 pm | |
| Because despite being a huge Jupiter-class planet, it is less massive than the other two. Of course the names for "c" and "d" will turn out to be even sillier if 1/sin(i) is significantly larger than 1... | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 5:30 pm | |
| Indeed. Perhaps b and c should be called "twoseineyepiter" and "fourseineyepiter", respectively. Dinky may retain its name ; ). _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
Last edited by Sirius_Alpha on 6th July 2017, 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 7:13 pm | |
| Excuse me, I'm not sure: has it been discovered and awaiting for publication or is it only putative? About name, no please. Dinky as official name would be ludicrous. Funny nickname, uhm, so so...though I don't get the sense. Classical mythology fits well with relevant planetary systems | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 7:16 pm | |
| The planet hasn't been ruled out, but it hasn't been confirmed either. It's very unconstrained. According to the abstract, only a lower limit on the orbital period could be placed.
They also mention the need for further monitoring to ensure the signature is indeed planetary in nature. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 6th March 2010, 7:20 pm | |
| But it should not be included in discoveries yet. Am I too rigid? | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 7th March 2010, 4:37 am | |
| Nah you're right. Not a discovery yet. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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lodp Asteroid
Number of posts : 57 Location : Leeds, UK Registration date : 2009-08-11
| Subject: Coming up at 216 AAS Meeting 30th April 2010, 9:44 pm | |
| We have used high-cadence radial velocity measurements from the Hobby-Eberly Telescope with existing velocities from the Lick, Elodie, Harlan J. Smith and Whipple 60” telescopes combined with astrometric data from the Hubble Space Telescope Fine Guidance Sensors to refine the orbital parameters and determine the orbital inclinations and position angles of the ascending node of components υ And A c and d. With these inclinations and using M = 1.31M⊙ as a primary mass we determine the actual masses of two of the companions: υ And A c is13.98+2.3 Mjup, and υ And A d is 10.25+0.7 Mjup. These measurements represent the first astrometric determination of mutual inclination between objects in an extrasolar planetary system. The combined radial velocity measurements also reveal a long period trend indicating a fourth planet in the system. We investigate the dynamic stability of this system and analyze regions of stability, which suggest a probable mass of υ And A b. Finally, our parallaxes confirm that υ And B is a stellar companion of υ And A | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 30th April 2010, 10:39 pm | |
| Awesome. How about a reference?
If this is true, then the inclinations for Ups And c and d are ~8° and ~24°, respectively. And from Spitzer, we're told the inclination of b is "> 30°" _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 4:05 am | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 5:53 am | |
| Thanks, Edasich. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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exoplanet Planetesimal
Number of posts : 124 Location : here Registration date : 2008-06-16
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 8:01 am | |
| Impressive. If confirmed these are really hefty worlds. It will be interesting to see the stability analysis. Also the non-planarity of the orbits is very interesting. | |
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 8:15 am | |
| Well that makes things interesting: reversing the mass hierarchy between υ And Ac and υ And Ad, and resulting in an object above the deuterium fusion limit (though probably too old to actually be fusing deuterium any more) being sandwiched between two planetary-mass objects. Another piece of evidence against deuterium fusion being a useful dividing line between planets and brown dwarfs. Wonder what that does for the prediction that υ And Ad has water clouds - I suspect the internal heating in a 10 Jupiter-mass planet might be sufficient to push the temperature of this object too high for clouds to form. (Also as an added bonus the names Twopiter and Fourpiter turn out to be woefully inadequate... though if it is true that sin(i b) > 30°, then "Dinky" certainly looks a lot dinkier) Incidentally, this astrometic value for the mass of planet υ And Ad is very close to the preliminary Hipparcos mass in Han, Black & Gatewood (2001), who derived an inclination of 155.5 degrees and a true mass of 10.4 Jupiter masses (apparently the table in the article has dropped a decimal point). Mazeh & Zucker (1999) also obtained a similar value from the Hipparcos data. | |
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Edasich dK star
Number of posts : 2285 Location : Tau Ceti g - Mid Latitudes Registration date : 2008-06-02
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 1:57 pm | |
| So two low-mass brown dwarfs or superplanets? Dilemma. Sadly we should revisit Whatmough's suggestive artistic rendering, after official paper release. I don't trust teasers. And still this fourth hidden planet... | |
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Sirius_Alpha Admin
Number of posts : 4320 Location : Earth Registration date : 2008-04-06
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 4:37 pm | |
| Interesting about the Hipparcos data. Perhaps it may be more accurate than we had believed, if only for high mass/low inclination planets. _________________ Caps Lock: Cruise control for 'Cool'!
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Stalker Jovian
Number of posts : 540 Age : 33 Location : Paris, France Registration date : 2008-06-16
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 6:15 pm | |
| Fourpiter could have very massive and why not habitable moons!!! _________________ | |
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Lazarus dF star
Number of posts : 3337 Registration date : 2008-06-12
| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system 1st May 2010, 7:07 pm | |
| Depends on where the outer boundary of the HZ is I suppose.
The other question is how this affects the result that the eccentricity of the middle planet's orbit returns to zero every few thousand years, particularly as a result of the altered mass hierarchy between υ And Ac and υ And Ad. | |
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| Subject: Re: Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system | |
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| Upsilon Andromedae - Non-coplanar multi-planet system | |
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